SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to the Four Year Canine Podcast, where being a student of the dog is at the heart of everything we do. With Nancy Reyes and Lisa Poteska. Join us as we explore behavior, dog sports, and the human side of training. Helping canines and their people thrive, one conversation at a time.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

Welcome to the 4-year canine podcast. I'm Nancy Reyes. And I'm Lisa Bataska. We're so glad you're here. Whether you're sharing your life with a family dog or working through behavior challenges, competing in dog sports, or simply fascinated by how dogs think and learn, dogs thrive.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

We'll also be bringing be bringing on guests, answering your questions, and discussing topics that are practical, thought-provoking, and hopefully leave you seeing your dog a little differently.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

So whether you're listening to us on your morning walk, driving to training, or getting ready for your next trial, thanks for spending some time with us. Let's get started. We thought we would spend a few minutes introducing ourselves and sharing how we ended up doing what we do. So we're gonna ask each other questions so you can get to know us better. So Lisa, what was a dog that changed everything for you?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

There were a couple. There was Max, who was my papillon that I first got involved with with agility. He was awesome. He was a pet store pap. And then the other one who got me more into behavior was Simon. And Simon was tricky from the get-go. And he just I just learned a lot with how to how to handle him, what I could help, what I couldn't, and understanding all the frustrations and all the happiness that can go along with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

So what kind of problems did Simon have? Or what behavior challenges did you have to deal with?

SPEAKER_02 1:59

He was not good with people. He was great with dogs, he was good with dogs, but it took him two years to be okay with me living in lit him living in the house with my husband. And we were married for far longer than we had him. So he would always nip him. And any new people coming into the home. So that was really difficult. And then I, you know, and then of course we lived in a small, you know, house in Chicago, which was always super challenging with a reactive dog or a dog who doesn't like people.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

Right, right. And for me, I think the dog that changed everything for me was a little Spitfire named Bandit. He was an American Eskimo Pomeranian mix. We called him an Escaranian. Uh he was a busy little guy. He he had boundless energy, and when he wasn't busy or occupied, he found his own entertainment. So we ended up I uh getting into agility to keep his mind and body busy. And lur teaching a dog a dog sport was a little different than just the basic sit-stay down come, you know. So he got me he bought me into this world of dog training and dog sports. So and he turned out to be the most wonderful dog. We had a great life together. And then after that, Cha Cha, she was a German shepherd. Uh, she didn't have any behavior issues, she was perfect from the get-go, but she was a lot smarter than I was at the time. So I had to learn how to you know figure it out quicker. And she so that's the lesson she she taught me. But they all teach us something different. But those two dogs, of all the dogs we've had, stand out the most.

SPEAKER_02 3:51

Absolutely. So, did you always want to know you wanted to work with dogs?

SPEAKER_00 3:58

You know, no, I've always loved dogs, I've always enjoyed the dogs. And I always here's what I did know. I did know I was gonna start a business. I just didn't know in what. And I never put those two things together until I was close to 40. I remember starting I didn't put the two things together. I knew I had the business acumen to do it, but I didn't know in what kind of business. And I I tried other small businesses before the dog training, and then I realized um I had a very stressful job as a mortgage broker, and I used to do the dog training in the evening part-time, and that used to help me relax and not think about work. And then eventually the light bulb went on one day. I'm like, oh, I could just do dog training. So that's kind of how we got into got into dog training. So I left uh Corporate America and pursued this, which had an incredible amount of challenges. Too many to talk about here, but learned and I've loved every minute of it, every minute of it. It's been very challenging, and there have been days that I wanted to quit, but it's been totally worth doing.

SPEAKER_02 5:13

Yeah. Well, as far as me, well, you know, I was your student with Max. And yeah, I started out as a student and then started bringing more and more of my dogs as I got them. Sasha, Lily, all the the oldies but goodies, right? The smaller dogs, since I was bitten all like, oh, I'll do small dogs. They don't bite. Ha ha, that's funny. But but yeah, so I started out, but no, I didn't know. And then I was doing just working in corporate, right? And then Nancy actually said, Would you have you ever considered? And I'm like, hmm, no, but okay, let's try it. And so then it just kind of went from there.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah. And that was over 20 years ago now that we and before that I was uh the my first into dogs was doing agility with at a club with Matt Bandit. So and then Lisa joined that club as well. Yes. And then at the then after that we did we did go on and and open for your canine and started the you know, the madness that is now. So Lisa, here's my question for you. What did you believe about dog training that you've completely changed your mind about?

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So much. Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:28

It's an evolution, right? It is.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

It was it was pretty intense. Like, you know, I guess like the way that I grew up, how can I say not grew up, but like all the things you hear, right? It's like the dogs must listen to the owner and obey. And that was huge, right? Oh yeah. And then like when I met Nancy and we were working together, right? We we started to, you know, I was like, oh, clicker training and all that stuff and operant and right, all that came up. And then then it was just like, and then introduced to Suzanne when you found when you first saw Suzanne Clothier and then brought her to For Your Canine, it changed everything. Because at that time I had what Charlie and Simon. And Charlie was Charlie was special. He was a great boy. Um, but no, yeah, and that's it changed everything. Like how you look at the dog, it's not just one aspect, right? Right.

SPEAKER_00 7:27

And so there's multiple aspects, but well, and opera conditioning back then was kind of the new transition from keeler and the more uh punitive methods. But there were some challenges with that too, right? Because you in uh for operant to work, you really have to look at the whole dog, physical, emotional, mental. And unfortunately at that time, it's different now, at that time we weren't doing that. No. We were just looking at treating the dogs like we would train a marine mammal, because that's where uh operant condition came from. So uh that would that that changed uh and Suzanne Clodier, who mentored us for many years, uh, really changed how we look at dogs and how we look at training. So it's been uh that was a that was a game changer for us for sure.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

So let me ask you.

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:22

All right, what keeps you excited after all these years? Because I know, you know, it's been a while. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Uh what's still what I still love about dog training is when you see the people get it. That they they they really do look at the dog in a different way and have different relationships with that dog. It's not just a pet, it's a member of the family and understanding their feelings and their needs, as well as giving them good boundaries, because just because we talk about relationships all the time doesn't mean that dogs should not have we we don't believe in boundaries and information and feedback. That is all part of all the relationships that that we have. Yeah, sure. Whether it's a human to human or dog to human. So that's been the biggest that's the biggest joy I get out of watching that. And people just having living a more dogs just not sitting at home waiting for people to come home. They're they're actually part of the family. They get to do things they have expecting. Part of the life, right? Part of their life, yes. Yeah. So that's what gets me excited.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

How about you? I guess like sometimes you feel like you are spinning your wheels, right? And you're constantly repeating things over and over again. And sometimes it doesn't feel as if you're connecting or making sense, and you try to find different ways to explain things to people, right? Using different, you know, oh, for instance, if I did this, blah, blah, blah. Different examples. And so sometimes when it gets rough, like I think about something will happen, right? Like I'll get thrown a bone, so to speak, where like, oh my gosh, look at this dog, this person, you see them later and you're like, wow, it really made sense. You know, it didn't seem like it was working at the time. And so when you see those moments where they happen and you see that relationship blossom, that becomes a little more that's what keeps you going, right? Because you don't always connect, all the dots don't connect at the same time. So it's kind of a it's kind of an odd, it almost feels an like an oddity, like we should see it more often. Um, and again, it depends. It it totally depends on like the types of classes you're trying you're teaching to. Because if you teach like a basic or a puppy or what have you, it's different than teaching a behavioral cast. Like there's a different with the person, there's a different interest or vested interest to resolve that issue. So, you know, doing more of the behavior stuff side is has been very fulfilling. Not that the others weren't, it was just a little bit different.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

Right. Well, because when you when you're having a a person that comes to you with a dog with a behavior challenge that wants to fix it and make it right is is is a very, very vested in in saving and salvaging that situation. So yeah, I totally and that's and then when it does happen, that's that's just amazing. Yes. How that works. All right, here's a question for you, Lisa. If you wanted somebody to remember only one thing about your classes the way you trained, what would you want that to be?

SPEAKER_02 11:35

That I that they felt seen and heard, right, with their dog. Like because sometimes I think we go through this world and you know, everybody goes through challenges in life, but to be seen and heard and then to see a relationship in front of you, that connection and then be able to participate in it and be a part of that. I think it's, you know, it's a blessing, right? But in a way it's also a curse, you know. Because we're you're kind of tied to it and it's it's just something that I just want people to think that, you know, hey, I want I like the input I receive, I like the vested interest this person has in me because I do. I try I really want people to feel that when when we have that, those individual connections in classes.

SPEAKER_00 12:27

Right. And that you that people do, I think that's what we do well is people are seen and heard. And we understand having a challenging dog because we've had them. Yes. And we've worked with them for a long time. Right. And even our our friends and people who work for us, we've all had a challenging, you know, all of all of our dogs are ha didn't come to us perfectly. And they they didn't come right out of the box, you know, we've had to work and we've and and then different things pop up. So yeah, having the the individuals being seen and and heard and and have genuine interest in help helping that situation is is I think what we want people to remember about about how we what we train and how we train and all that.

SPEAKER_02 13:15

Well, let me ask you, so what is the biggest misconception that you have heard that or that people come to you with, right, about what behavior is?

SPEAKER_00 13:26

So the biggest misconception is people think that it's uh taking a class, a six-week class will fix all the problems. Right. That is that is huge. We get it all the time. That uh yeah. Dogs are it's six-week class, dogs should learn it, and dogs should learn it every time.

SPEAKER_02 13:44

Like kids go to school for how long? Exactly. Right? And you know, if you want a further education to get better at things, you have to go to college, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_00 13:52

So any any behavior or any changes or any learning takes time. Six weeks would be great, but not real realistic. So that's for me.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

I think for the misconception is the whole we still go back to the the dominance thing. It drives me insane. Um it's just I'm like, oh really? You know, and I like I I just I disagree with people, but I'm not combative until it becomes very personal. Then it's a different story. But anyway, but no, like the whole thing about, you know, that I remember somebody saying the dog standing on them was a dominance thing, and I'm like, why? And they're sitting on the couch and the dog was like just wanted attention. And and so when I hear those things about dominance, I'm like, does your husband dominate you? I don't know. How is this how does this make sense? And it it's something that's always kind of been something I'm not really fond of hearing, but right.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

But that that's you know, for me, that's the biggest mis misconception that people come up with. And I think one here so here's a another interesting question. Have you ever wanted to quit? Of course.

SPEAKER_02 15:08

I mean, everything gets hard, right? Sometimes you're like, am I making a difference? Does it matter? Right. You know? And you have those moments and it's then it becomes, you know, everyone has those moments about I'm I assume everyone has those moments about everything they do. But I think in in the dogs, like this is more than a job for us, right? It's a passion. And so to walk away from it is is sometimes where you're like, Am I really making a difference? Right? Right. Absolutely. And then and then to walk away from it is like, I don't know. But yes, there are times that I'm like, why am I doing this? And should I just go back to a nine to five job?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Yeah, you know I've had the same. I've thought of because running the business plus everything else, there's been days I'm like, oh my God. But but yes, but then you you see you have your clients come in with their dogs, and you see that, you know, that connection and that enjoyment and that fun of being together. I'm like, all right, we keep going and we we go on another day. Right. All right. So to get to know us a little bit better, a little bit of fun that we're gonna have here. So here's um some quick fire questions. Coffee or tea, Lisa?

SPEAKER_02 16:25

That's the only choice.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:28

Okay, fine. I forgot. PG, okay, coffee.

SPEAKER_00 16:31

Yep, me too. Coffee. We're definitely coffee girls for sure.

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Oh, yes. I mean, your coffee is like jet fuel. It helps me go. And anybody who's seen me on a Wednesday morning knows that. They're like, there she is, on fire.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

All right, morning person or night owl? I'm a morning person. Yeah. I I am not. I am more of a late after late morning person, but I have become more of a morning person over the years. Uh dogs making morning people, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:01

Yeah, no, no choice in that. I know. Mine are up at 4 30. Come on, let's get up and go. Yeah. All right. Favorite breed? Or is there such a thing? All right, I know. I don't know. I mean, I g I like, I don't know. There's different ones, but I think the her the groups that I like are my herding group for sure. I really like my herding breeds. Just because, you know, comparative compared to some of the stuff, and you know, even within, right? Even within specific types of breeds, there's there's individual pieces, right? So I guess I generally lean more towards the herding breeds, and then I st I adore my papillons. I just do. So you? For me, I like a variety.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

I do like I like a variety of dogs. So I have herding, I have shepherds or working breeds, and I also enjoy the sporting. And then the little the hounds have always been a soft spar in my heart, so I have beagle. Challenging, of course, but lovely. Love them. Okay. What's the best advice you've ever received, mud dog training?

SPEAKER_02 18:12

I'm thinking. I'm thinking about that one. Do you have an answer? The best advice is to be patient. Yes, that was what I was gonna say. Yeah. But I was trying to be patient. Yeah, I I think I think patience different ways, right? Right. Patience in patience in helping, like when the dog allowing the dog to process in the moment, and then patience in understanding the process takes time. Like you're not gonna rush Mother Nature, right? I mean, we want to hurry them to hurry up and grow when they hit that teenage time, right? But patience, you have to let them let the the process take place, take hold, and mother nature to grow that information.

SPEAKER_00 18:55

Right. So here's a here's one that I uh it's an interesting is there a behavior problem that still challenges you? And I think we're we're in agreement on this one. And for us, for both of us, it's resource guarding. Absolutely. That I have I feel I have had the least success with over the years.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

It is definitely challenging for sure. Like the, you know, like I said, I was telling you earlier, like I'm working with a little Rottweiler puppy who is, you know, she's like probably three months, maybe two or three months, and she is exhibiting behavior already, and and then the misconception of it, no, I could take that from you, and that kind of stuff. And and I think people don't quite understand how to deal with it, and it's a compliance issue more than more than I think most some of it, it's the compliance, the person part of it is more complex and challenging to deal with versus the dog itself, right?

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Right, right. So, yeah, over the years, because of the lack of compliance, that's been the most challenging of all the behavior problems we work with, because we work with lots of aggression, dog and human aggression. And incredibly that those are not as hard as resource guarding.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

Well, I think you can make it worse. Like the people, like that's the problem, right? People can make it worse because they hear a bunch of different aspects of it.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Right. So that's you know, we we're always trying to learn and we always keep learning because I think what we learn at what we know about dogs, we just know the tip of the iceberg. I don't I think there's so much more to it. So we always want to stay open. And there's always gonna be a dog that's gonna challenge us in like, okay, I thought we knew this, but we don't. So there's always gonna be that.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

The other, you know, the other thing as you're talking about it is arousal.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah, that's tough too.

SPEAKER_02 20:47

Yeah, arousal is a tough one, I think, too, because I think people don't quite understand how to address it and work with it. And it can be very con it can be very like you think you're I think I got it, but then and I think the hardest part about it is that people the application of it across the board versus just in a specific issue. And I think people don't understand it's something that you do all day long versus just hey, it's this issue and I'm working it here.

SPEAKER_00 21:19

Right. So, one of the things we wanted you to get to know us better and why we're doing this podcast, and I think we've alluded to it as we're talking, we wanted to do this to continue to share information and keep educating. And what we learn, we want you to pass it on to you so that we can our cohabitation with dogs evolves just like uh anything else. Because it's evolving but very, very slowly. Right. Um, we are still seeing people do things that you know using punitive methods, still punishing dogs, still doing a lot of that. And not that dogs shouldn't have boundaries, but the training has evolved, it's gotten better over the years, but it's been a very slow evolution. It has. So that's why we wanted to maybe if this podcast can help.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Open up your minds. A little bit, yep. Roll it around, think about it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Right. And so we're also gonna we also want you to know that we are learning and we want to continue to grow and evolve as as trainers, and that's why we wanted to be able to give that to you. What we wanted to gather from listening to our podcast is how to how to incorporate your dog and have it become an i integral part of your family with uh by understanding them better and and just being able to be more thoughtful about about them and about what you want and about what what how that's gonna work together. Sure. One of the things that we hope that changes for you is we're we're gonna try to give practical tips that you can incorporate easily into your life with your dogs. That it's just gonna make things better and better for you, for your family, and if you're competing, better teammate for your dog, all of the above. Thank you for joining us, and I hope you enjoy our podcast.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

Thanks for joining us today on the For Your Canine podcast. I hope this gave you something practical to think about. Try with your dog, or bring into your next training session. If this episode was helpful, please subscribe, leave a review, and share it with a dog friend who might need to hear it. And if you're looking for support with dog training, dog sports, behavior, or the mental side of competition, visit us at 4yourk9.com to learn more about our classes, workshops, and online programs.